Hey, listeners. Welcome back to the podcast. As you know, I have reduced my number of episodes, but what that also means that the people I bring you as guests are unbelievable. And so I am here today with Abbe Feder and I met her, I guess we met on Instagram. That was the first way we felt we connected. Abbe is an entrepreneur and she is a specialist and expert in the field of fertility. And what’s really cool how we also connect is she has her own Oracle deck as well, which is gorgeous. And so I wanted to bring her on for a couple of reasons. Number one, because my audience, you guys are primarily female entrepreneurs, so you all have that in common. But also, whether you personally have gone through fertility issues or, you know, somebody who has or does or is or any of those past, present or future, it’s good to have people in your corner and especially people who you can trust, who you feel a connection to. And that’s why I want to have Abbe here today. So warm welcome. Thank you for being here.

Thank you, I’m so happy to be here. And we met actually on Instagram because I heard you on the Kelly Roach Show. And I would be totally honest, I listen to her all the time. She has like multiple episodes a week. I’ve never, like, immediately reached out to one of her guests. But I just loved you. You like me, like you we’ve in a dichotomy kind of like you have the business and you have the woohoo. And I most people don’t know that about me, but I also have the wooo! I think people for you, like see the wooo right away, right? They show spirituality and for me, they see more of the business person first. But beneath it all, I do have a very deep connection to spirituality and will sell. I was like, I must reach out to her like she and I, there’s just so much in common. And we just clicked right away and I’m so happy to be here and support each other’s business because I think what you do is just phenomenal.

Thank you. And another great recommendation that Abbe gave me was the Entrepreneurs League, which really all in the I’ll link it in the show notes if you’re interested in a networking group with female CEOs, I mean, so far so good. I’ve made some wonderful connections and I really just so appreciate that, that referral so.

That it works. Yeah.
So let’s dove in because you know, Abbe, you had a podcast as well. You’ve since sold it and you know, you’ve grown your business, you’re doing primarily coaching. And so let’s just kind of roll back a little bit in time, you know, which came first? Did you start your journey as an entrepreneur and you are wanting to get pregnant? Like, tell us a little bit about your backstory.

I’m one of those people that’s kind of always had an entrepreneurial spirit. And third grade I had like I lived in Manhattan, New York City, and I had like a, it was called chat because unlimited like tchotchke is, is a Yiddish word for like junk, basically. And I just, like, sold stuff on the street. Like, I just I’ve I’ve always babysat, so I’ve always loved the idea of monetizing for good, whatever the case may be. So my background, honestly, I’m a behavioral science. I have my bachelors is in behavioral science. So somewhat related to the mental health fertility space. But I really got a degree to get a degree and then I always wanted to pursue acting. And so I did go to grad school for acting. And even within the acting realm, there’s so much entrepreneurial business stuff that has to happen that many creatives are not good at. And I was always very good at that.

The marketing, that keeping in touch with people, the relationship building. And so I feel like every facet of my life I found a way to make it entrepreneurial. Of course, I waited tables like many actors do, which I loved. And to this day, like if I if it weren’t so physically taxing, I would still do. Because what it taught me was there’s always ways to make more money, right? You can always pick up a shift. You can always cover for someone. You can always work a double. And I think there was something I really wanted. I would just have a way, right, a way to just hustle a little bit more and make extra money. Yeah. And I think that I feel like everyone in life should wait tables or work in some kind of customer service or commission based business to get that understanding, because I really do. So many people are married to the idea that like you work the 9 to 5 and you make a set amount of money and that’s it. So what can you do within that amount of money? I just always feel like there’s always a way to make more. Yes. So all of that sort of informed my entrepreneurial spirit. And then when it came time to get pregnant and we weren’t getting pregnant, that took precedence over everything. I was so miserable and so unhappy and so depressed and so just surprised. I just kept feeling like, how is this my story? I, I don’t understand. I did everything right. I took care of my body. I married a great guy, and. So whatever else was going on in my life took second fiddle. It was like, you know, sometimes trying to get pregnant is like a full time job. And that’s I would imagine.

Yeah. And that’s what I’ve seen in my girlfriends who’ve gone through various ways of, you know, trying to get pregnant. It is a full time job. And not to mention, if you go the route of IVF and all the doctor’s appointments and the injections and the pills and like it is so taxing.

It’s so taxing and it’s so freaking expensive, right? It’s like.
Yeah.
So it’s like I didn’t have the stamina or desire to work in any way, but also I needed to find a way to pay for fertility treatments. It was just it was brutal. Yes. And so we went through it for many years, some without medical help. And then once we got on the medical bandwagon really far into it, a crazy amount of time to do it like we did for eyes for a retrievals and transfers. So total like 16 depending on how you look at it.

Wow.
I know. And again, even when I say it, I’m like I just can’t believe that was my story. And just spoiler alert, we did end up on the other side with twins, but we were told it would probably never happen for us biologically. So they are really miracles.

Okay. Hold on, please. Okay.

Rewind

When someone when a medical professional tells you it’s probably not going to happen. What does that feel like?
Just know. Just know. I was just like, no, that’s not. That’s not our story. It’s just not our story. And I know that sounds so crazy and like. Faith does not work for everyone. But I knew in my gut we were going to have biological children. I didn’t know for sure that I would carry them. But even based on my medical look, what was going on in our in our particular journey, we were making embryos. So that wasn’t the issue for us. And I was like, if we are making embryos, we are having a biological child. I don’t care what you say to me like we are doing this and I love my fertility doctor to say that I had a few, but the one that I ended up with. I mean, she literally looked at us and was like, you know, if you want to do this again, we can. But I don’t really know why you’re doing it again.

Wow.

And I was like, okay. Like, by this point, we had started what is now the podcast. We weren’t sure what it was going to be at the time. We were just so sick of what everyone in our life was saying to us. You know, just relax. Go on vacation. You can’t be 15 rounds into a medical treatment and then, like, go on vacation and get pregnant. Sure. Does it happen to some people? Yes, like lucky them. But that was not what was going to happen for us.

What were some of the things that like were very like particularly triggering? Ah, like angry. Like so people know what not to say because I feel like there’s a large volume of books that need to be dedicated for like stuff don’t ever say to people trying to get pregnant right now.

And if you’re ever, like, on the fence, should I or should I don’t, or reach out to me first and be like, is this okay? So one of the first things I remember, like after my first round of IVF, one of my husband’s friends was like, you know, once we started trying, every other day it happens. And I’m like, okay, buddy, do you understand? We’re doing, like, medication every day. Like, every other day is not going to do it for us. So really, in general, that goes to like don’t make suggestions for people. Just don’t just don’t make suggestions, just be a safe space to listen. Right. And I always say, like, honesty is the best policy. So if you don’t know the right thing to say, then you say, I truly don’t know the right thing to say. I just want to be here for you.

Yeah, that goes miles.
So much. I think people are quick to it’s like the awkward silence, like.
Yes,.
I don’t. And so they fill the space with a suggestion because it’s like a knee jerk reaction, like, oh, I’ve hurt my elbow. Oh, you hurt your elbow. Have you tried icing it? You know, did you try wrapping it or have you looked at it with a doctor? Like, we know like three things basically to give anybody suggestions with. But if it’s outside that realm, it’s like, I don’t know. So really erring on the side of just holding space for people is really the most important, impactful thing that you can do.

Exactly. And that’s really and don’t like saying nothing is also not great. Right. So I think a lot of people felt they were doing the better thing by saying nothing. But again, I go back to like, let’s go to the truth, which is, you know, last time we talked, which was six months ago, you are going through IVF. I see you’re not pregnant or I see like I don’t know the right thing to say, but that must be really hard. And I’m here for you, you know, just acknowledge it, you know?

Right. Or did you notice that people like distance because they didn’t know the right thing to say? So they’re like, this is awkward. I’m just going to, like, put my head into a hole and step away.

They, like, disappeared from our life because they didn’t know what to do or say. And they were having babies and they knew we were trying at the same time that they weren’t. So they would literally just disappear. And like that is really what the catalyst was for our podcast, because we couldn’t go after these people and say, Let me tell you how you’ve been shitty, you know what I mean? But we needed a place to talk about it. And so someone was like, Just grab a recorder. I don’t know if it’s going to be a podcast, but just sort of talk about it. And we did and it became like our sort of de facto therapist. We would talk at night about the things that really hurt us during the day. We would record phone calls from our nurses and our doctors and we didn’t know what it was going to be. We just it felt like an imaginary friend that was in it with us, you know?

Yes.
And so, lo and behold, it did gain some attention, just the raw footage. We were very lucky. We were connected to a wonderful podcast company called Star Burns Audio, and they had nothing in the space and nothing in the realm. And they just loved the idea. And and so they were like, we want to produce this for you as an actual podcast. And so they did, and that’s how it all started. And at that point, we had just been told that it probably wasn’t going to happen for us ever. Wow. And so we were like, we need a place to talk about the grief that one carries for life when your family doesn’t turn out the way that you’ve thought that it would. That was really how it all started.

Yeah. And so it was both you and your husband the entire time you had the podcast. And it’s almost like it kind of reminds me of journaling, but you’re kind of like co like writers, but you’re, you’re, it’s like an audio journal essentially of documenting your process and everything that you experienced.

Exactly what it was.
And so once that podcast company kind of picked you up, both you and your husband were told this news like it’s not going to happen for you. Was there any part of you that was like, what, we should just not sign with this company?

I mean, no, almost more drove us to want to talk about it more because I didn’t ever hear people talking about what it feels like to process that grief on a daily basis. And by the way, this was like before podcasts were as much of a thing as they are now, right? I love and also specifically the art. There are now a lot of infertility and fertility podcasts out there.

Totally.

And ours was one of the first, which I love. And ours is not about like interviewing people about their stories. It is literally our actual story in real-time.

Wow. So very unique. Very like, just so raw, so authentic and super.

Yeah. And so. Yeah, like, that really fueled our fire more to do the podcast. And then along the way, we did kind of our Hail Mary rounds of IVF and we got pregnant with multiples.

Wow.

And even our podcast producers were like, are you serious? Are you serious? Are you serious? Like, they could not. They’d been through this journey with us.

Yes.

And so then our pregnancy, of course, wasn’t easy because God forbid it ever is. And we ended up having to do a termination for medical reasons and all of these things that really I feel, especially now, given the state of our political country, need a space to be talked about and.

Totally.

Giving a human face. So we talked about all of that and it’s all out there. And like that podcast company had a relationship with Audible and Amazon and then Audible and Amazon decided they wanted to buy the exclusive rights to the podcast. So that’s where we really that’s where we really sold it like we had sold us. And then, yes, our friends helped us really sell it to Audible. So.

Wow. And you know, so when you first start out, you were pregnant, you share the news. I mean, there are so many different areas of thought on when do you share the news? Myself and one of my close girlfriends, we are both of the mindset of like, Listen, if I’m pregnant now and I lose my baby, I like to have the support.

Yeah.

To talk with about that and not to have this like dark secrets that I keep by myself. And I think this only perpetuates why we have so much trouble talking about miscarriages or infertility or even terminating pregnancy is like it’s like this taboo topic. We know nobody talks about it, but yet there are millions of women suffering every day who are going through loss and have no one. They don’t feel safe to be able to share that publicly.

I think, you know, is really, really awkward because our podcast actually didn’t come out until about three weeks before I was due. So I was very pregnant and people were hearing it and didn’t know it was kind of a cliffhanger, so they didn’t know that we’d gotten pregnant. Gotcha. So there was like the coming out publicly and then the coming out to our close family and friends. And honestly, pregnancy after loss and pregnancy after infertility is a whole special kind of trauma. Because I didn’t enjoy my pregnancy at all. I was terrified every single day that the other shoe was going to drop and it wasn’t going to become true, especially with multiples. I was like, okay, well, at least if something happens to one, I’ll probably still have one. I mean, these were the games as I now.

Oh!
I know.
To have those kinds of thoughts on a regular basis for.
For 40 weeks. I mean for 37 weeks.

Yeah.
So yeah, I really I mean, I told my close family and friends, I still waited until after the first trimester, not so much because of loss, but because we knew we had to terminate. So we got actually ended up getting pregnant with three.

Wow.

And they were given like a 90. I was given like a 97% chance of miscarriage if I carried all three because I was about I was almost 40. It was just because IVF, you know, ups your chances of miscarriage. But the fact that three made it to a larger state, like to a big state like a far stage was insane because we had lost so many already.

Yes.

And now this is where a lot of my wooo came in because. You know, I work with somebody here who’s an amazing, intuitive energy person and. I really needed help. First of all, deciding which one to terminate. I know that sounds horrible, but, you know, there’s a whole medical process you go through to figure it out and. You look for any possible sign that there might be one that you know, should be the one. But it was brutal. It was torture having to make that decision. But I have an amazing. Her name is Gillian, and she really helped me. This is so crazy, but I’m just going to go with it. Like throughout my pregnancy, there was a solar spirit that was trying to get through me. And I firmly believe still that that spirit was that third baby. And I was meant to I mean, I still to this day, call that baby, my angel baby, because that baby having to say goodbye to that angel baby brought me to my family that I have now.

Absolutely.
So so yeah. I mean, I didn’t tell people mostly because I wasn’t sure if I should say I’m pregnant with three or two or if only one was going to be able to make it. It was like such.

Oh, my gosh. Like holding your breath and not I can’t even I mean, these are impossible decisions for people to make. I mean, as entrepreneurs were like, do we have a painful or multiple?

What do we do?

Totally, totally.
No other repercussions. And I, you know, in my business, I say to my team all the time, when we have decisions like, listen, this is not no one’s going to die here. We’re just selling meditation. It’s going to be okay. You know, we kick ourselves too seriously sometimes. But these are these are really life and death conversation. And they’re impossible they’re impossible decisions to make.

They are.

And so you do have to dig in deep and you have to go into your heart, into your soul to find those places. But then you go, okay, so something has to happen. And I, I fully got chills when you said, like, your angel baby, you helped to bring your two kids into this world, which hundred percent. I mean, just to be safe again, I get full chill.

When you said you got them, I got them, too. I know, but I truly believe that. And that’s where I’m grateful that I do have some sense of spirituality and energy and universe, because it really helped guide me in this particular moment. So yeah, that is sort of that’s like my story. But from the podcast, that’s how my business was born, so to speak, because people just started reaching out to me all the time. What do I do? Thank you for sharing. Here’s my scenario. Do you know a doctor? All these things. And I was like. There’s such a need for a connector of the process and the emotional piece. It’s not a therapist, right? It’s not available for 50 minutes at 3:00 on Tuesday and maybe has never been through it. But somebody who truly understands what you are going through, it can help shepherd you through the emotional, the physical, the financial of all of it. That is how InCircle is born.

So was InCircle born sort of in parallel to your children being born?

It was born like, you know, I didn’t know. None of us know what motherhood is going to be like, right, until you experienced it. But I truly didn’t know. I kind of assumed since it had taken me so long, I was going to want to be with them like every minute of every second of every day and like never work again. And like a weekend I was like, Oh God, I don’t know if I can be home. I don’t know if I can do this, you know, because again, when you have an entrepreneurial spirit that really just lives inside of you, you can’t do nothing.

So, yes, I will. And I will echo that as well. I’m backing you up right here.

Thank you.

My calling as an entrepreneur, just similar to you, has always been there from a very, very early age. My first business was when I was 22. When I finally did get pregnant, I was at I was, I think 32. And and I remember my my mother had come to visit one time and basically to talk to me about focusing as a stay at home mom and not on this little business and really encouraging me to like put this little business aside. And had I listen to her, I wouldn’t be here today, obviously. However, that year was the year I next my business.

I love it.

And by the end of the year I said to her, I’m taking November off. I’m celebrating this stuff. And she was like, No, no, no, you can’t stop now that you. I said, Listen, Mom.
I if I listened to you seven months ago, I wouldn’t be here today. So thank you for your advice. But until you are an entrepreneur in my shoes, I will not be taking advice from you. Thank you very much. Being like and I believe we can have both why we have been programmed to believe you can either this or that, but you can absolutely be a mother and have a successful business. And there are gobs of women out there who are massive, crazy, successful, and don’t work full time or who work minimally. And their businesses are just kicking by and they’re like, I guess I homeschool my kids now because like, I’m just making so much money. I’m just sitting here like, I should do something,.

Something right. I mean, great. Like, let’s both be then. That was what I think in, you know, I mean, this is so clear to me and most people I think that are probably your listeners because there are a lot of entrepreneurs. Being a mother makes me a better business owner and being a business owner makes me a better mother. No two doubts it, like no question about it. It’s just like all the things that are able to fill our soul can drive all the sides of our life.

So preach.

Yeah. So after. After they were born, I was like, I know without a doubt that I went through this to be able to help other people. Like it was just so clear to me.

Yeah.
And, and, yeah, it took a while to be, you know, I was still a mom of newborn twins and I wasn’t sure how what the model was going to look like. And so it took a while to become what it is now. But I have so much pride in being able to offer this service because I just so many women are entering the fertility space in a business capacity because we all are just like enough, enough of this horrible experience that we went through, like, what can we do to make it better and gain some control because it feels so out of control? Yeah. So that’s the beautiful piece about it.

I love that. And I want to say, you know, when we can kind of go through these dark nights of the soul, we can go through these hardships in our life. And you get through that place and now you’re here and you can look back and go, I knew I had to go through that so that I can help serve other people. And I think what’s really challenging for a lot of people is when we’re in these dark situations and these challenges that are like they’re taking us over to actually have the understanding, like, I might not see it now. I might not know it now. But this is this is happening for a reason. And just trusting that by itself, a lot of times we are in these difficult situations and we need to know what the end of the story is like. What is it all for? Why is it happening to me? But we’re not really gaining the benefits of being in it also if we’re trying to hurry up through it.

So totally agree with that.

I feel like if you are experiencing a dark night of the soul or you are undergoing a big challenge in your business, or you’re having issues with fertility or whatever it is right now that you’re up against and it’s hard and it feels insurmountable. I want you to hear Abbe’s story right now, too, and realize that if she has gone through all of this, which it seems like the people who I know haven’t gone through nearly as much as you also just going to put that out there. If she has gone through this, you can get through it, too. And it’s going to happen for a reason. And I think a lot of the reason why people are drawn to this podcast, too, is because there’s something in them that knows that they’re here to lead. And as leaders, you know, we’re here like bushwhacking. We’re like with a machete through like the jungle. There is no path in front of us. We are just trying to figure it out. And so there are times where there’s like a clearing that we can just be like, Oh yeah, I own this, I know what I’m doing here. But a lot of times we’re just like bushwhacking and we’re just like a few steps ahead of you, and we’re just looking back, going. We put our hand back on. Come on, this way.

Stick with it.

And so that’s it. It’s like, hear our stories and understand that you can also make it through to that next place if you’re feeling stuck or stagnant. There are ways through. And also I want to just reiterate, you reached out for help from multiple people, from all different places. And I feel like I’m seeing this a lot recently, which is like there’s two very distinct type of people, like people who want to just complain about everything bad in their life and then people who want to do something about it.

Yeah.

And you know, I think a lot of people could take the stance that especially again, if people are saying to you, medical professionals say, nope, it’s not going to happen, you could totally take that first road and be like, this is my life is is over. And I’m sure a lot of people feel that way and sort of stick in that place and like. Things just kind of happen around them, around this one issue. I think it shows such a strength of character in you that you could see this as like, this is not going to be my story. And just stepping up and going, I’m going to get through this. And now that you help guide other people through it from a place of walking the walk, that’s so empowering. And so when people reach out to you and they’re going, I don’t even know where to begin, who do I talk to? How do I get help through this? How did you do it? They’re hearing your story. Did you start working with people individually? Did you know that you wanted to do groups of people like and then like next, next like the carjack, like? Well, to get into that. But how did they kind of start to develop for you?

So I truly when I launched the business, I had a business partner we have since divorced amicably ish, but it just wasn’t it wasn’t a fit. But she was amazing at helping set up the business. I’m not an entrepreneur at all, and that’s sort of where you have to really follow your gut on that. You know, biggest tip, I would say entrepreneurially, but we would say you get two for one, right? Because you would we launched right before COVID and we pictured ourselves. We were like, oh, we’ll have like an office that looks like a therapy office and we’ll cry with people and, and, and then we were like, Oh my God, we can’t see anyone. What are we going to do? Let’s pivot. And so we started on Zoom. We started very slowly, and now we actually started by volunteering for an organization that pairs like Peer Mentors for fertility.
Wow.

Just to get the experience and to get some testimonials and to see could we really actually do this?

Yeah. And we did it one on one. Like, you know, I took a person and she would take a person or we were like, as we launch our business less and move it to zoom, let’s try to on one. And so that’s how it kind of started the two-on-one model that you get to coach is one patient and her story was very different than mine, so we felt like we had a lot of bases covered and then it just became like, well, eventually we’re probably going to do one on one because we don’t. We have a system now and we see what we’re doing. And, you know, we had. You could work with us for a year or six months or four months or three months or an hour. And it was like, No, that’s all too much. Let’s have one signature package. And for me, the signature package we were finding, even with four months, it wasn’t enough. And one of my strengths is relationship building. Like, I want to know that you’re committing to six months of going through this with me and I’m committing to six months of going through this with you. I really take my clients to heart. I want them to take me to heart. I want them to feel comfortable to reach out. And unfortunately, in the grand scheme of infertility, six months isn’t even that long. Sometimes you think, you know, this was a problem with the year package. Nobody wanted to be thinking they were going to be going through infertility still in a year, whereas many of us are. And so six months felt like a nice, reasonable amount of time where we can make a meaningful relationship together and still navigate one to 2, maybe three courses of treatment and see what’s happening. And the way that I say it is like we all know about the pregnancy glow. I like to give the fertility glow. And glow is for G is for a game control L for learn what works O is for ovary love and W is for when. So those are sort of the place we began in control is the number one stop, like making a plan together and not feeling like this is all happening to us and what are we going to do? And like we’re at the helm of whatever our doctor says. But no, like what can we do to feel in control of the journey and then finding the right team of people, doctors, acupuncture, energy, people, whatever works individually for a specific client and like making the plan together.

Wow.

That is really and I’m I’m so happy with the six month package. I love getting to know my people. Many of them come on for another six months. I wish they didn’t have to, but some of them do. Yeah. And many of them come on for six months, even after getting pregnant, because like I said, there’s no kind of trauma like pregnancy after infertility. And they want to just know that I’m still available to walk them through that.

Yes. That and that fourth trimester. I mean the of them. I mean I mean, that can go that mean I’m not trying to remarket your business here, but even what you said is like statistically speaking, most people are going to be in it for a year, even though we don’t think we want to. And, you know, understanding that there is so much that can go into these containers is six months containers together, even beyond trying to have a baby. After you’ve had a baby, there’s still there’s work to do there.

Right. Right.

And so much.

The feelings of motherhood after infertility, like you feel like you’re supposed to be so grateful for every little thing, but like, getting no sleep still makes you miserable. And you’re allowed to say that even though you wanted your baby more than anything in the world, right?

Totally.

So it’s really like a lot of mind games that happen.

Oh, yeah. And I mean, I think we all suffer from some range of postpartum depression. I think there’s a wide spectrum. I know for me, both of my kids didn’t really sleep for the first year. And I mean, your brain just doesn’t work on all cylinders, period. I remember I used to take pictures of my newborns and be like, I think people take pictures of babies to really realize and remember how cute they are when, like, they’re literally draining every ounce of life from being like.

Exactly.
Like. I have friends who are, like, obsessed with babies, and they go on to having a home health, like, you know, babysitting. And I’m like, please, please now, like, quite cute babies. I’m like, Oh, that’s good for you.

Yeah. Yeah. I always say, like, everyone’s children suck except my, you know, that’s like and I and I didn’t know that I was going to feel that way, you know, I thought I was just going to want to like, I’m really managing that piece of it too. When you overcome infertility if.

You just.
The puzzle yeah.
Huge. And again it’s like this this gray area that doesn’t really come up to the surface and get talked about and looked at.

And that is really like I am all about talking about all of it. Like I’m such an open book. I think it’s so important. I don’t expect everybody to be an open book, but I like to take advantage of the fact that I am because I figure it’s grounded in reality. This is just the reality. And what I’ve learned mostly from doing the podcast is that every so many people are like, That is exactly how my husband and I fight. Thank you for it. Like, I thought we were just even more horrible people than most. And like, I see now that that’s normal to fight that way. And it doesn’t mean we don’t love each other or I wanted to murder my doctor when they said that to me too. So thank you for just saying that because I felt so validated. And that is really what sharing our stories is about, right? Like.

Yes

Validating each other so that we know we’re not alone in this and that nothing’s wrong with us.

Absolutely. You know, it’s interesting, I yesterday I actually had my annual checkup at my OB. I go, I see and I see a midwife and I see who I had. That’s where I went for my the birth of my children and that the facility is being shut down. It’s part of a hospital. And they’re they’ve been petitioning. It’s actually being shut down. And when I went there yesterday, you know, I was angry because there is no other alternative, you know, a medical adjacent kind of facilities in the area with midwives with this kind of experience. And so they’re like being dispersed into other places for women. And, you know, it’s.

Surprising because not used to have great reproductive health benefits and like seems really proud. You know what I mean? I’m so surprised.

It’s it’s shocking. And, you know, the midwife who I spoke to, she’s been doing this for a hundred years, basically, and even just the level of love and care that she gave me doing breast exam and pelvic exam. And we were talking about, you know, what to look for when you do a breast exam. And I kind of just threw in, you know, after nursing my kids for so long, my breasts just didn’t look like they used to. And, you know, I did consider implants. And she stopped me right there and she took my hand and put it on my belly. And she looked me in the eyes and she said, Just remember, this body brought in life. This body is wonderful.

And love, this body, you know. And it’s so it’s like when you get that level of care, you can’t possibly compare it to being in like a sterile environment. And then when you’re in those maybe harsher, sterile environments with doctors and you think that that’s like the norm and you can’t have a person like you who you can be like, actually, maybe we could advocate for you a little bit, or maybe we need to find a different doctor or find a place that is a little bit more in line with your values. You know, I just realize how sacred that place has been for me all these years and how it never felt like things were being pushed on me. It just felt so warm and loving and welcoming. And I would wish that for every woman going and going through any anything.

Right. And it’s exactly what you say. Like, we don’t know what we don’t know. So when we go to a doctor that maybe doesn’t treat us in a safe way, we leave feeling like, Ooh, that was weird. But I guess that’s how it goes. That’s how it is. Yeah, I would, you know, any different or any better.

Right.

And that’s why. That’s why we need to tell these stories.

Correct.

To know, what’s better.

Yes, we need to tell these stories. We need people who are like you or groups of women who can get together and gather and speak these things out loud and understand. I mean, part of this conditioning has been passed down from our parents and from our grandparents. I mean, I have a next-door neighbor. She’s 81 years old. And after she had her third baby, they put a heat lamp on her vagina. They put a heat lamp on her. And she had up getting burns on her skin, on her labia.

Oh, my God.
Right. It’s like our.

What was the reason that they did that?

I. She can’t even articulate it. So even now, right now, she just goes with it because you’re like, Oh, I guess this is what I’m supposed to do.
Right. Or like, they took her kids and she wasn’t supposed to breastfeed them. Like she was like a bad mother because she was breastfeeding at that time. It was like a taboo thing. So it’s like.

This wasn’t that long ago.

I mean, this woman is literally living and breathing next door and telling me these stories. And so, again, having people that we can talk to and who can help share these stories and hold space in this way is so important. So. So you work with people one on one. Do you have group programs or sort of how does that work?

I do some group coaching, like a support group coaching really, but I do that for other organizations like Resolve, which is the National Infertility Awareness Association. There’s an amazing group called Fertility Rally that does a bunch of different support groups, so I don’t personally do a group coaching, although it is very much on my radar to potentially develop one. You know, it’s hard because some people don’t want to go through it with someone else. And, you know, my fear of a group coaching is like, let’s say I take five women together and like to get pregnant and three don’t. And what happens?

Right.

It’s just like a little tricky. So. Yeah, but I am working. You know what’s amazing is that so many companies are starting to bring fertility benefits into their workplace, which I think is so crucial. Yeah, but it’s almost reactive, like a Band-Aid on a problem. And they’re not. The people get the benefits, but still know how to use them well.

Right.

So what I’m doing is like trying to approach companies is like, let me help you help these women so that you’re not just like slapping an ad corporate insurance plan on them, but they understand what’s happening.

Yes.

What to choose. And so in that capacity, I’d like to work in groups. But, you know, this is like anything. It’s a long road. So that’s what I’m working on right now. If anybody has any corporate connections that they want to put me through to, please send them my way.

Yeah, I love that.
Yeah. So I for now, just feel like because also this is the thing with infertility. With six months, you might need me every day for three weeks and then not then we’re in a waiting period for two and a half months. So that’s why I also I do a longer-term plan because the ride is a total uneven roller coaster. So you might not need me all the time.

Right. Which makes sense. And I love that too. About your model of really giving people that flexibility and realizing like, you don’t need people to need you to be there all the time on time. Right. But then I love. So I’m going to talk about your card deck. So this is that invitation of, you know, if you’re not quite at that stage or even people who are working with you, having this deck is so beautiful. So you have empowering messages on each of the cards are like a rainbow in color for people who are watching the video.

You know, can send you some. I should have sent you some. I’m going to you some after this.

Thank you.

They’re done. By this way, you’ll have them for someone else who might need them.

And you know, we did talk about doing the possible giveaway to.

Yes

Why don’t we do it. Yes, let’s do that.

Yes. So I’ll give to I’ll give two decks away, 2 decks away.

Thank you. Thank you. So we’ll well have a giveaway for podcast listeners will share it on Instagram and just to get people excited about it and to see. So I love the parentheses around in for charity. Oh, God.

Like deciding internally that you might be infertile is a big decision. So if you don’t like it, where’s my finger? You don’t like it? Is there fertility cards of affirmation? And if you understand that you might be going through infertility already, then they’re infertility. For me?

Yes. Or in your fertility. Like, I think it could have made for many things. Yeah, I loved it.

So, yeah, these were born out of I got a deck of cards as a gift after I had babies already, and I was like, Oh, my God, I wish I had had these during my infertility journey. Wait a second. And so I was like, Oh, my God, I’m going to look for infertility cards of affirmation, of which there are none. And so I was like, We have to make them. And the artist, like anyone on video, can see the rainbow-like you were describing, and you’ll see it on Instagram. So the artist is amazing. Her name is Jamie Britcher and she is the glitter enthusiast on Instagram and she went through her own insane fertility journey and decided to gain control over her journey. She was going to use art with IVF needles, so she takes sterile IVF needles and makes these incredible like, here’s what each card looks like, these incredible complications. Cause, I mean, she uses, like, blow dryers and alcohol and all she’s all using it with IVF needles. And so she did the artwork. It was like such an obvious match for me. I was like, I have to call Jamie about this.

I don’t know. Is there another artist that we better match for you?

I don’t think so. So, like, here’s one that I just picked randomly. I can speak up when other suggestions or advice cause me stress and pain like we were just talking about.

Yes

I can. So this is affirming. I can speak up when other suggestions or advice caused me stress and pain. And you can see this one happens to be green. They’re all different colors, beautiful. And it’s just because again, you write someone says like, oh, try every other day or just relax on vacation and you’re inside. It’s like so raging, angry. So then you check your card and maybe the next day you say, you know, there was something you said the other day, and I just want to let you know, maybe that wasn’t the case, whatever it might be. So these are very specific to the fertility journey really.

I love them. And I was going to ask you to pull a card

So I’m glad that you did.

And I still use them now, even though I’m on the other side. But I find that very helpful in everyday life.

I mean, that messages is perfect for.

No matter what.

Yeah

Totally. I think honestly, people are reaching out to me all the time, like mothers and sisters and best friends that were like, you know, my best friend’s IVF just failed. I don’t know what to do. Do I get flowers or does that seem like it’s a funeral? Do I say nothing? And so when you go on our site and look at the cards, I even give examples of things you can say that include things like. You know, I saw these cards and they made me think of you. I never know the right thing to say, but I hope that they provide support in your journey or whatever, in my being, in little examples of things that you can say because there aren’t perfect gifts out there for this kind of grief and loss. And now I feel like there are going away.

And you know what? You just made me see greeting cards as well.

Yes. And now Jamie has been working on as well.

Yeah. I mean, those would be beautiful greeting cards that people could buy from you. And, you know, it’s not that like that card could be the message. An insider could say one of the beautiful things that you just said.

Of totally, you know, people that idea.

You heard it here first on the Aligned & Unstoppable podcast, you get full.

Credit. Full credit.

I don’t mean I don’t need it but I mean that’s just it is like we all are searching for those pieces that can say the things that we wish we could say and don’t want to give people at all. Like, that is so wonderful. Abbe thank you for being a guest and thank you for sharing your story. I think that the listeners are going to hear so much hope in your story and also see, I mean, even when you talked about your business model of offering a gazillion things and then now narrowing it down like let’s have a signature program. And actually, this is how I serve at my highest level. I mean, this is stuff I talk about all the time. And it is so congruent with the messages that I share here. So I think if people are hearing you say it, it’s you, it’s not me, say it is. You see, I.

Totally know we didn’t talk ahead. Of time about this, I promise.

But that’s also part of the journey is like we have to eat a little humble pie. We volunteer, we try this, we try that, we throw spaghetti against the wall and then we go home. This is it. Like we get we have to get to that piece, but we can’t just I think people want to fast forward and just get to the place where they have the thing that sells to everybody. But like, what’s fun is that you’re not going to build your audience and build your message. You don’t understand who you are. If you just start with, I just offer this one thing and I, you know, you’re not even confident in it at that point. I know.

And I think one of the important things that I do say in a different way is that nothing is set in stone. So if you try it, if it doesn’t work for you, then you just can change it. It’s not right. Like, that was hard for me because I’m very like, plan must be in place now. This is the plan. I can’t change that. I just put it in place. But if it’s not serving you or your people, then it’s not working. So to change it, you know

Powerful.

All right.

I adore you!

The feeling is mutual, Abbe. So everybody can find you. You’re InCircle Fertility, on Instagram.

InCircle Fertility and Abbe Feeder. You can find either one and cross-find me on both and I love my DMS, so feel free to reach out. You can go to my website if you want a 30-minute connection call to see if maybe you want to work together we’re a fit. Please reach out for that. And we’re going to do two, two car giveaways, which I’m super excited about.

So cool. But it’s like, this is the podcast that just keeps on giving.

I love it.

So good. All right. Listen, thank you so much. If you enjoyed this week’s episode, please take a screenshot and tag me in Abbe in your stories. You know, we both love DM. She just said this is the best way to give back to us. To say thank you, to say what was your AHA or that something really helped you. Or if Abbe said Oh, this particular phrase and then you use it on your friend and you’re like, Oh my gosh, this is exactly what I needed to say. Thank you for those words. Connection is everything, and we are both totally all about it. You can always leave a positive review on iTunes and give us both a shout-out on there. Thank you for listening and sticking with us and please get yourself in that card giveaway. I want you to win. Those cards are so gorgeous. Thank you for listening. Lots of love, I will see you on next week’s episode.