Business Growth Without Relying On Social Media

Emily: Everybody, welcome back to the Aligned and Unstoppable Podcast. I’m joined by a special guest, Rebecca Tracey. And the reason why I wanted to invite Rebecca to be on the podcast for all of you is because I found her using a unique approach which was saying, maybe you don’t need social media as much as you think you do, to acquire leads and to grow your business. And I love that messaging, first of all, because it’s a little bit like what? And I also saw it on social media, so I was like – Oh, this is interesting. So I was like, I got to talk to this girl.

But I think there’s so much that my audience is going to really enjoy hearing from you because I know you coach a very similar demographic of people who are newer in their business. And so I’d love to sort of open up that can of worms of like, how should we be using social media to bring in more people or should we not be like this, is there are there carrier pigeons? Like what is the alternative?

Rebecca: Yes, that’s the best way these days.

Emily: Yeah, it’s really… message in a bottle. Put it in the ocean. So I want to talk about that. But before we get into all of that, I would love for you to really introduce yourself. Sort of how did you get to this place and tell us a little bit more about you.

Rebecca: Yeah. Thank you. I’m Rebecca Tracey. Also go by Becca, kind of 50-50. My business is the UncagedLife, I started it in 2011, so it is an old, old business now. It’s going on for about 12 years, which is nuts. And I started it… I started I was doing kind of a mash-up of things. I had just graduated from a program in holistic nutrition. I’d done a life coach training. I was working on a side for an online wellness company, doing all of their social media and blogging.

And I was like most new businesses being like, how I wish all these things together. What am I even doing here? And I was kind of messing around with that. And what I found was that a lot of the people that I was in my circles were other health coaches and other life coaches. And the thing and I was practicing my coaching skills and so I was just taking on as many free clients as I could. And I think that they all needed help with, was really figuring out what they wanted to be doing kind of with their lives, but also with this new career that they were moving down in the coaching world. And so I ended up coaching them on figuring out what they really wanted to do.

And a lot of it I found, is, you know, giving people permission to not do the things they didn’t want to do, etc… And so that plus then I was learning all of these online business skills on the side and I was like, you know what? I was kind of teaching those to my clients as I was going.

So it worked its way into what I do now, which is really helping new business owners, especially people in kind of the coaching wellness fields, learn what it really takes to get clients and kind of cutting out all the BS of all the really overcomplicated marketing tactics and getting people really clear on their foundations. So like really niche and really strong messaging, really having an understanding of how to actually sell what they do. That’s my focus now.

Emily: Great. Well, I love that. And you’re speaking to the right crowd. All of my listeners are here with that same mission. They’re here to lead. They’re here to help people. They’re coaches, healers and leaders. And this is really important for them to know.

And it’s funny, I’ve been teaching, not a workshop, but a program, a three-month program that’s really building on those fundamentals, those the ground level. What are these fundamentals that if I do for a long time consistently, it’s actually going to work?

And what was really funny that came up with one of the calls yesterday was essentially somebody saying, well, I’m looking to have these results and I haven’t gotten them yet. And it’s like, okay, so let’s talk about that. And when we ask about what’s the result, first of all, what are we talking about results and what are you measuring? And what happened was that this customer was saying, I’m pointing at you, meaning me? You’re supposed to get me these results and it’s supposed to happen right away, which is not at all my promise. It’s not part of the sales page. Don’t have a magic wand, although I do have a unicorn headband.

But that’s part of, I think, that new mindset and mentality of, you know, I’m going to sign up for a coach or a program and they are going to fix the problem. They’re going to fix the leak in my boat. The water won’t have to come anymore and I won’t drown and die. But what really showed up really strongly was emphasizing this is your responsibility, your results are your responsibility.

And so part of what I really excited to get into with you is how can we bring somebody who is new to this, who doesn’t really have a foundation, who is like literally just doing busy work, thinking like, I’m building a business. See, I’m so busy all day, I’m building a business to actually get them to do the right things so they can niche down and get their messaging honed in. So let’s really open up to that. So where do you see people really struggling the most when they. When they’re finding you.

Rebecca: Yeah. I think what you just said about busywork is so true. Because I did this when I was in my nutritionist health coaching days where I was like, okay, I need a logo and I need a business card and I need brand colors. And I was like, working on the business. But for what? Like, did anyone ever hire me because I had those business cards that had a cute little logo that kind of look like a lettuce leaf, but also was a flower and that, like nobody cared. How long did I work? Trying to think of a tagline for my business cards? And I knew this is 2011. So like, you know, it’s a little bit more old school, but I still see people coming to me thinking they need a logo, thinking they need all of these things and they’re spending time on shit that does not matter. It still doesn’t even mean you’re successful. You don’t need a logo. You don’t actually need a tagline like it doesn’t, it doesn’t all that. But it’s what I found is that it feels good for people to work on those visual things because it’s like…

Emily: Right.

Rebecca: there is something to show for it. And when you’re sitting on your niche and you’re like, fine-tuning the language around how you’re going to articulate it, it’s like it’s messier work, It’s harder work because it forces you to make decisions about things versus just kind of stay in the like, let’s make it look pretty without actually really even knowing what you’re selling. It’s easier to do that busy work, but you have something to show for.

I think it also makes people feel like they have their shit together. It’s like, look, I have a logo. Look, I made this and it’s like, Oh, you have a real business, then you have something to show. But I would argue that is not a real business and that the better work you can be doing is actually the down and dirty work of really digging in to getting so clear about what you’re offering and niching work and the stuff that you know is harder for new business owners to wrap their head around.

Emily: Yeah. So let’s dive into that. So what are what would be some advice or some tips that you could share around niching down or understanding your customer a little bit better?

Rebecca: Yeah. The niching thing is such a big one. I think it’s super important to niche in when you’re starting just for the reason, not because it’s going to be the forever of your business and everything’s set in stone, but because it’s going to help you get clients faster. And the problem when you start is you’re doing so much work and you’re not getting paid and it feels, you know, overwhelming and it feels disheartening and you start to feel defeated eventually and then you quit before you actually get anywhere.

And so it’s really important to start making money fast so that you’re like, Oh, things are working and you have some motivation to go forward. Nobody wants to keep doing a bunch of work and not getting anything from it. So niching in isn’t bad. So I think the more specific you can get when you’re new, the easier it’s going to be to get clients.

And I always recommend thinking of it as like a niche for now, it’s not a niche for the rest of your business. But it’s like, what’s a niche for now? What’s one offer that I can create for a really specific group of people solving a really specific problem that I can just get five people in the door for so I can actually start working with people and building my skills and making some money.

And then you work with those five or ten people and then you can rethink it and go, okay, well that worked or this felt good about it and this didn’t feel good, so maybe I’m going to go in this direction and then you can kind of, you know, like your niche is sort of like a road that’s always, always you’re always going down and it’s always lining.

Emily: For sure

Rebecca: Yeah.

Emily: I love that. I want everyone. I want you to be haunted by Rebecca’s voice, so say niche for now. Niche for now.

Rebecca: let’s haunting 😀

Emily: Perfect, it’s so perfect. And I also feel everybody literally screaming at our podcast right now, though. I know, but I don’t know what I want to do. I want to help all of the people. I don’t want to exclude people because then I can help people. And if I’m on a mission to help people and I exclude them, then I’m not actually helping them.

Rebecca: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, because when you try to help all the people, you have to take the language that would be really specific.

So we were just working with a client who wants to,  she’s a kind of a coach, spiritual counselor and she wants to work with people around self-doubt and like this feeling of unworthiness and so she’s talking about it out here with this really broad language of, like self-doubt, not feeling good enough without context. And when we gave it context, we’re like, okay, who has this problem? And she’s like, well, one group I see is spiritual practitioners and Reiki healers who have experienced this longstanding self-doubt. And it’s really getting in the way of their work, it’s getting in the way of their business, it’s getting in the way of them, like being able to actually do the work they want to do with their clients. Then it has context.

And so when you look at like. How easy it is for your brain to wrap itself around. Like anybody with self-doubt versus spiritual practitioners and energy healers who are experiencing this self-doubt and it’s getting in the way of their business. It’s so much easier. I just know who to send her, you know who to send to in the second group. But the first group, I’m like, I don’t know. Everyone kind of has self-doubt, but it’s there’s not a compelling enough reason or clarity and context around it for it to make sense.

Emily: Yeah.

Rebecca: So when you say broad like that, you know, to your point, you’re saying like, I want to help everybody. You actually don’t get to help any because nobody hires you. And then when you niche in, your people are like, Oh, shit, I know five Reiki healers who are super struggling with this. Let me send them to you. And then all of a sudden you get to actually work with people. So it’s super counterintuitive, but you get to work with more people when you are specific because people will actually hire you.

Emily: Right, exactly. And I think we have to work on our beliefs when you’re figuring out what your niche is. And I love again, I’m going to go back to the niche for now.

Rebecca: Niche for now! 🙂

Emily: because it just gives you permission to just be in this lane. And oftentimes I see clients who don’t stay in the lane long enough to see it play out. They’re like, I don’t know. I put out one post and nobody ever said it didn’t work. And it’s and I it’s just not no one’s responded didn’t work.

And actually in my practitioner training program. So I train people how to do energy-based training. But part of my certification is the business, it is the marketing, is the messaging, all of it into one certification. So it’s the first and only energy-based training with a profit guarantee because you’re doing the work literally within the program.

So people are making money in the program, they’re finishing the program with making money and they have all of this figured out versus most training to like get a certification. You’re like, great, let’s get in the certifications and get myself out there. But people end up collecting certifications because they’re still not niching down, they’re not finding who they’re serving.

And literally the practice sessions at my course that my students are doing within the first ten sessions, they are seeing a trend. They’re seeing, oh, these first ten sessions which are free. I’m attracting this type of person with this type of problem and this is the result I’m giving them.

Rebecca: Yeah.

Emily: And so they’re seen in black and white. They’re getting testimonials, they’re building their confidence from day one. And that’s part of the problem. And I love that you said, you know, get that money in fast, because when you don’t get that money in fast…

Rebecca: You quit.

Emily: All of us, you quit. And then you start thinking actually, in that process, whether it’s a month or a year or whatever that window is for you, your window of tolerance to take in, no money in is going to then force you to start using that plan B, like, well, if this doesn’t work out, then and I’d love to have this conversation because when we’re not fully 100% focused on that thing, we’re not 50-50. We’re now like diluting our energy towards building our business to probably like 20 to 30%.

And the rest of that, all of that energy is going into a waste bucket. It’s completely wasted. It’s completely it’s just it’s diluting your messaging, it’s diluting your energy. It’s taking you away from your focus. And it’s also putting out the message to the universe. No, thank you. Please don’t. I don’t want any of this business – pass, please…

Rebecca: Yeah.

Emily: It’s just, it’s doing the opposite of what you want it to do.

Rebecca: Yeah, because the longer that it doesn’t work, the more your brain is like, see, nobody wants what I have to sell. And then you continue to run your business from a place of, well, nobody really wants this. So then, you’re putting out messaging and offers with sort of an underlayer of like, well, no one really wants it. So I guess so and so and that shows through and then no one wants it for sure. It’s got this weird energy to it. And so it, yeah, it just doesn’t work. So money in the door faster and a niche for now is the fastest way to do that.

Emily: I love that. And also, you know, when we have that energy of like it’s not really working in our brain, it’s like looping and going, see, there’s evidence, it’s not working. Our energy is, it’s like coated with this layer of eeeeh. So no matter what we’re putting out there, whether it’s a post or a reel or email or a blog, it has that energy all over it. And you think that, oh, people can’t pick up on it because I did my hair and my makeup, so I look so good for this reel or for this live or whatever. But it’s all over your energy field and people can pick up on energy within 3 seconds of interacting with you. And so if they’re picking up on something, even though you think you’re masking it, you’re not…

Rebecca: Yeah

Emily: People can pick up on it.

Rebecca: Yeah. And I feel like you’re also just not as likely to even put things out there as many times as you need to when you’re convinced it’s not going to work. So like, you’ll put it out once and be like won’t sort of work anyway. So I’m not going to do five more posts about it. But if you had an excited energy about it, it was working. You’d be like, I love blossoms everywhere. I love it. People are coming in, it’s feeling good. And so you just don’t do you know, you don’t do the work that you need to do because you need exposure.

And I think people really underestimate how many times you need to put something out there before one person will say, yes, it’s not a tit for tat, it’s not I put out one post and I get one client and they put out one more post and I get one client. It’s like I put out 30 things and I got one client. And so you’re not even doing what you need to do if you’re in the energy of like, well, it’s not working anyway, so what’s the point?

Emily: Absolutely. And even to come back to that customer who was like, you didn’t get me results. When my team member looked at her Instagram page she had in the last six weeks, five posts, five total posts, none of which were anything that I’ve taught.  No call to actions, no offers, no who I am, what I do, nothing at all.

And so it’s like, okay, so you’re not actually to your point, like you’re not actually putting your best foot forward. You’re not doing many or if not anything, to put yourself out there in a way that’s really helpful to you.

So what are some ways that people can then they got their niche for now, they’ve got some money coming in, hopefully. What are some ways that you see people misusing social media that you want to help, help them to correct?

And I mean, I know what you’re saying about, you know, you expect of one for one return every time I go live, I should get a new client. So I’d love to hear your take on all that.

Rebecca: Yeah. And I so just to preface this by saying I don’t think that social media is bad and I don’t think that social media doesn’t work. But two things. So, one, I see a lot of people who are new because they’re told you got to be in social media. So the first thing they do is they go in, they start making reels and making images and quotes and like hashtags. And so they’re doing all the things, but they actually don’t even have clear messaging and they don’t have a clear audience that they’re talking to. So their stuff is kind of watered down.

Like I see a lot of I work with a lot of life coaches, so I use that example, but I see a lot of like, you know, a nice quote that they made in Canva that somebody else said, and they’re putting it on Instagram and I’m like, no one fucking care. Look, no one’s going to hire you because you put that or like, you know, them trying to do the thing where they’re like, okay, I’m going to share. I’m going to share what my business is about.

But they’re sharing like, you know, I work with anyone who’s feeling a little bit low or anyone who has self-doubt or anyone who just wants to feel more alive. Like it’s this really general. Nobody really, I call it like, this is like meme-worthy. Like it’s like worthy. Somebody might see it and be like, Yeah, that was inspiring. I’m going to give that a hard on Instagram, but like, no one’s paying you $1,000 for it.

So they’re trying to do all the strategies they’re learning, but they just don’t have enough clarity and specificity. So it’s kind of just missing the mark and no one’s really doing anything with it or I see people who just don’t want to be on social media. That’s kind of me, like they don’t want to be here. People love being on video and doing like the creative process of it I think is exciting for some business owners, so they kind of get lost in it even though they don’t have the clarity. But then for the other people, they just don’t want to do it and they hate it.

So whatever camp you’re in, I think, number one, if you’re going to be doing any marketing, I always think this and you probably teach this also, it’s like there’s a stage before marketing. You don’t just decide to have a business and then market your business. You decide to have a business and then you get really effing specific about what the business is and who you’re trying to talk to. And you do your market research and you make sure that you’re actually speaking to them in a way that makes sense to them and that you’re actually like hitting on the pain points that are compelling enough that they actually want to buy something from you. So you do all that foundational work before you start marketing anything. So if you want to be on social media, make sure you do that work first, because that’s the only way that any of the strategies that you’re using are going to work.

But I think I mean, there’s so many ways to get in front of other audiences that are not social media. So I personally think social media is great for networking and, you know, meeting people, not even meeting your clients, meeting other people that you could collaborate with or referral partners or just other people in the industry, like you have direct access to people’s inboxes, which is, you know, would have been unheard of ten years ago. Like you can just go and send a message to somebody, how are you going to have their email address? Right? So it just gives you that kind of in-person connection and that’s what I mostly use it for.

We have a team now that does our social media and we can talk a little bit about how I use it. My business is much different, though, than a brand new business who’s looking to just get some one on one clients in the door and start making money.

Yeah, the networking on it is great, but in terms of like content, I just think you just don’t know what the algorithms are doing and you have to put out so much content and like one piece of content is gone in 24 hours. If it’s a story or who knows how reels are getting repurposed. But most of the time you put all this energy in and people see it and then forget about it and it’s never to be seen again.

So I really like the strategy of getting in front of like borrowing other people’s audience is basically like, look at what we’re doing now, right? I don’t know how big your audience is. You have a whole lot of people listening. You have your whole social media following wherever your followings are. You’re going to post this and all your people are going to know who I am. And I have a large following. I have a Facebook group of 15,000 people. We have a big email list and I’m going to go share this podcast episode with them. And then all of a sudden they’re going to know who you are.

And so look at the impact of that, where we both have the same audience or similar audience. We do different things, but with a similar audience. And how much more impact this one hour of us chatting is going to have than like 50 reels I could put in on Instagram and, you know, it’s going to the right audience like it’s anyone could be seeing them, right?

So I love the idea of being able to get into tap into audiences that already exist, that are in your niche, (that’s why you need a niche for now) that are in your niche so that you can just do less work and have it have more of an impact.

Emily: Yeah, and I totally agree with you.

I love strategic collaborations, you know, and we can see there is a commonality or a similar interest or how could this person benefit my audience, How could I benefit their audience? Is there an angle that I bring that nobody else has brought? And I love these kinds of collaborations for that exact reason. I see the guests on my podcast that have the biggest reach, that have the most downloads tend to be people who are in that similar demographic. And likewise, if I’m a guest on their podcast or in their community, it’s the same way.

And we’ve had a couple of guests on the podcast repeatedly, whereas and also I’ve been a guest on other people’s platforms repeatedly because the audience just goes wild and they’re like, more of that, please. It’s like, you’re right, I could not make a single reel with that deep of an impact person.

As a podcaster, we’re in people’s ears and, you know, maybe they’re on a walk or they’re on a drive, but we have a lot of their attention for a pretty I mean, half an hour, hour long amount of time. And it’s so deep versus going out wide and trying to hit every single network and be on every single platform.

Rebecca: Yeah.

Emily: I wrote down a note to come back to this about the foundational work.

Rebecca: Yeah.

Emily: So you said around building that foundational work, really understanding what you’re doing in what kind of area, what the competition is like, all of that stuff. And I was just kind of like silently laughing to myself, like, nobody does this anymore.

So I’ve been in business since, well, for 23 years and I’ve been an energy practitioner that long. I started my first business when I was 22. And at 22, you know, we did for promotional material. We went on to our word doc and we made a little weird, you know, a flier, and I would put four on a page and I would take it to Staples and I have a printed and cut. Sometimes I wouldn’t have a cut because it was too expensive and I couldn’t afford that. And I would hand cut hundreds of fliers and I would take these fliers and put them on windshields and I would put them in coffee shops. And that’s the real thing, that’s a hot zone.

Eventually I got funds enough where I printed shiny postcards over nice and glossy, but I was in person like guerilla marketing, getting myself out there and not getting paid to do any of that, not having any kind of reach. There was no social media. I didn’t have a website and I was just hustling. I was doing free events and I was networking like everything I could do to just be in front of people. And even still I was discounting myself.

So all that to say is at that point when I was 22, I was also a college student and I wrote a business plan for my actual business that I was for like currently running. And I won the competition. And the reason why I won the competition is because I had done a business plan for my business. All I was doing was submitting it to this contest to win some money for my brand. And the funny part, funny part was that the prize money, I had business partners at the time who were very, very slow to understand business strategy. I will just say that. And I was arguing that we need to have a CRM. I want to get a way for us to get people’s email addresses in and do mass emails to them in a way that we can start tracking data and understand who our customers are. They’re like, we have Gmail. There is no need for any of that. And so I basically was like, listen, if I win this competition, this money is going towards this and I won. And so I got my way and I say, this is all like a funny back story for me for you. Maybe the listeners never knew that story about me.

But I think the funny thing is, it’s like back 20 plus years ago, you wouldn’t dream of starting a business without writing a business plan and doing market research, just like bare minimum. Like, who is out there? What are they doing? What are the prices? How do I set myself apart?

Nowadays, the barrier of entry is so low, like anyone can create an Instagram account, anyone can create a website anyone can do anything. And so you really don’t see people who are doing the research. So I found that really fascinating that you mentioned them.

Rebecca: Yeah. And I think it’s also most of the people that we both work with, coaches, healers start businesses because they feel called to do something. They’ve been usually they’ve been through some experience and they want to help other people with the same thing.

And so I actually just wrote a blog post about this, like, remember it was published or not, but about doing, starting a business basically for reasons that are too selfish. And so like we start our business and we make it all about us and it’s like, well, what I want to do and who do I want to help and how do I want to say it? And what do I think is a good way?

But like, none of that actually matters because you’re in a business to help other people. And so your experience of something is not necessarily the same as, you know, a mass of other people’s experience. And so you have to go and figure out like, is my idea of marketable? Like I have this idea, I want to do this thing. Like, do other people want this idea? Do people want to pay me for this thing?

And it’s a scary question to ask because sometimes the answer is no, or sometimes the answer is, well, maybe, but not in the way that I’m selling it or not in the way that I’m marketing it and describing it. And nobody wants to do that, right, because we hold our ideas really precious. And it’s like, this is the thing. And I’ve had the idea and I’ve journaled about it and meditated on it, and now I’m finally ready. And it’s like we just like almost want to put on the blinders and be like, I don’t care what anybody else says, but you have to care. Because those people are paying you so important. And it’s the best thing you can do. And it’s definitely the scariest thing you can do when you’re starting.

It’s much scarier than making a business card or a logo or getting some brand colors or an Instagram setup. But it’s like going out and actually figuring out, here’s this idea I have, does anyone want to see me for this? And if they don’t,

Emily: Right.

Rebecca: What do I need to shift? Is it the audience? Is it the messaging? Is it the actual idea? How do I need to shift so that people will pay me for it?

Emily: Yeah. Then this is great. It’s also, it’s built into my certification, my Integrated Energy Alignment Certification Practioner.

Rebecca: I think it  should be in every business,

Emily: everything…

Rebecca: It’s like, it’s hashtag strategy and like, oh, yeah, it’s not.

Emily: Here’s some great stock photos.

Rebecca: Yeah. And I think like I always describe it as like what I teach and it sounds like what you teach is like step one and a lot of courses that there are great courses, but they’re teaching you like steps 5 to 10. And so if you haven’t done steps 1 to 5, then those courses aren’t going to work.

And so I don’t I wonder if this happens with you, but I get a lot of students who come to me who are like, I’ve taken every program though, and so it’s a big name program. You probably know who she is taking that one, take that one. And like I’ve gotten nowhere and they’re like, at the end of the rope, they’re like, I have no more money to spend. This is like the last straw.

And it’s so when I look at the courses they’ve taken and what they’ve done, and then I look at their website or whatever they’ve got, I’m like, It’s so easy to see that like you jumped into the marketing in the steps 5 to 10 without the clarity on what the F you’re actually selling.

So like, all we need to do is access for this and then you can go and use those courses again. And yeah, people do, right hey go and they’re like, Oh my gosh, I could actually now use these five other courses that I wasn’t ready for when I took them the first time.

Emily: Right. Because they just had no foundation. You’re just trying to put bricks up in the windows. It and there’s nothing to hold.

Rebecca: Yeah. Like you don’t even know what you’re you can’t even articulate what you’re selling. Like, how are you supposed to build a whole website and marketing strategy around something that’s kind of elusive?

Emily: Yeah, and this always comes up with my certification students because so we for the first month, they do ten practice sessions for free. And you better believe they fill up like this. And also part of my promise is I take all of their booking links and I share them within my community of hundreds of people who want what they have to give to them. So it’s like it is… It’s like, would you like to just scoop up the people, like they’re there for you?

Rebecca: Yeah.

Emily: And like, listen, like when I was starting out, no one was offering me handouts for clients. I was hustling. And so, you know, those first ten sessions come real easily, while by month three I require them to start charging. And so this is when the real work happens.

I say you can have a sliding scale, but it has to be sort of between these two numbers. And some people are practitioners are coaches who’ve been at it for a really long time. So like they’ve been charging a bit more and it’s kind of like a little humble pie for them to drop their rates to do these, set the sessions at a lower rate.

And then there’s the brand new folks who are like, I’ve never charged anything in the day of my life and like, I’m freaking out right now. And so we have both camps that are kind of experiencing the same time.

But this is where the work, the work comes in so that they can, you know, try to, you know, share their links in the way that they are innately doing it. And then also there’s the course that says, okay, so these things work, these things don’t tend to work.

And in the process of, you know, trying to get their selves out there and market themselves, they’re making mistakes and so they can come into the group and go, I don’t know what I’m doing wrong. I put out two posts, no one’s doing anything. And then we can look at and go, okay, well, first of all, you would have no contact information there.

Rebecca: Yeah

Emily: I don’t even know. First and foremost, I don’t even know what this thing is. No one’s going to know what an IEA session is, no one’s going to know what to expect. They don’t know who it’s for. They don’t know how long it is. They don’t even know like who you are.

And there are so many times that especially with coaches and healers, that their profile photos are like lotus flowers on top of it, you know, and it’s like, okay, hold on. You are a personal brand that you are hiding behind a lotus flower with a quote on it, like, how is somebody want to buy from you?

Rebecca: And I think what you’re speaking to is so important, I think, for people to realize, because imagine that we do the exact same thing in our program where we were like, go put the thing out and then let’s come back and see if it worked in the past, why it didn’t.

But imagine someone’s building their business like many people are without us, without that support. So then they’re putting stuff out there and it doesn’t work. And then immediately they’re like, I suck. Nobody wants it. I’m not good at this. I’m going to quit my business.

But how long are you going to last with putting stuff out that’s missing the basic information that if somebody else just looked at it, they’d be able to tell you like you’re going to 3 to 6 months is what I see before people are like, I gave up on my business. It didn’t it wasn’t really nobody wanted it. Right?

Emily: Right. Yeah.

Rebecca: Not that nobody wants it. So I think it’s important for people to realize that, number one, you have to be putting out way more than you realize, but you also need to have some feedback on it because you don’t know people, coaches, healers, you guys didn’t go into business like to become marketers.

Like it’s not your fault that you don’t know, but you just don’t know. And so you need eyeballs on it. You need eyeballs, that is huge when you’re new, it will save you from failing your business.

Emily: I agree. And yesterday one of the homework assignments was to partner up and do an audit of each other’s pages because there might be like if I was paired up with you and I was like, Listen, Rebecca, I have been posting so much. Nobody wants what I have. I’m about to quit. Everything is terrible. And like, obviously nobody wants what I have to sell. You come along and you’re like, all right, let me just take a little look, see, do so. And you go like.

Rebecca: All right, so you get it. Who is this for?

Emily: I’m confused about it. Who is it for? It’s very complicated. There’s too much text. There’s no pictures. I don’t know who you are. I have 100 more questions. And also you only post it twice. So maybe that’s part of it.

You know, like to be able to have somebody to support you when you feel like you’re doing everything wrong and then you internalize it. And also to have people to support you, to say, like as an outsider, because I’m not you, here’s what I have questions about. And if you can start to solve those questions, you would be surprised at how fast other things start to open up for you. And you know, no matter what I’m selling, there’s always going to be somebody who has some sort of objection or a question. And I’m like, Oh, thank you. Because I see, like, I’m too deep in it. And sometimes I miss those simple details like, well, what’s the call schedule? Or, you know, how many people are going to be in that program? It’s like, oh, right, right. Like, it’s just a detail that I didn’t list on my website. You know, these, these questions are such great opportunities.

Rebecca: Yeah. I think it takes when you’re new because we’ve been doing this for a long time, so we’re so used to hearing that and getting the feedback. But when you’re new, it’s like this idea that I talked about earlier of like we sometimes hold our ideas too preciously and it’s like, okay, I’m and I finally put up the thing and it’s like, we almost don’t want feedback on it because we don’t want to hear right. What’s wrong with it? We don’t want to hear what’s good. We’re going to get defensive about it. And so it takes a lot of vulnerability and it takes a lot of courage and it takes a lot of like desire to make your business work, to actually be able to do that and be like, okay.

And then to take the feedback. Because what I find and I did this when I was new and I see my students do it where people are like, I didn’t understand this and this was confusing. And then they like feel like, okay. And then they try to explain it to them. It’s like, you know, just maybe you just have that you have to change the way you’re talking about it over here. You have to justify why you wrote it that way. It doesn’t matter the way you wrote it doesn’t work. So like. draw up kind of the drama around, feeling defensive around the feedback we’re getting and be like, this is what the world is going to see. And these people, random people are telling me that it’s not clear. So like, doesn’t matter that I think it’s clear and I think it’s the best way to explain it. It’s not. So I need to change it.

Emily: Right

Rebecca: How to just get really, really good at being okay with that. It’s not no one saying your ideas shitty. They’re just saying that the way you’re articulating it in this way is not clear. And so we need to shift the way we do it. And when you can get really good at that and not take it personally and just go out, make the change, put it out again, get the feedback, make the change. When you can do that really, really fast, your business will grow so much faster.

Emily: Oh, for sure. Those are all,  and even, as you said, like those are all the star students who go, okay, got it. Thanks for the feedback. Let me work. And it might hurt a little bit. Like it’s not easy to take feedback sometimes, especially when you’re new. And then if you do take the feedback and you do something with it, you get those results.

And the other person that you’re describing who is getting defensive and explaining and pointing the fingers and blaming everybody else, those people are so you could feel the energy. It’s like their energy is closed off, it’s their way, it’s what they think it’s like.

Rebecca: They think, it’s my idea… Thinking about this idea for ten years.

Emily: Right? I feel like you are too, based on how you’re describing what you do with your students of like putting things in action really fast. Like we don’t spend a year thinking about it and like journaling on your knee and meditating on own and making to it

Make sure until it feels right that we’re going to put it out there. It’s like you get to like, this feels 50% good enough, and then you put it out the door and then you get the feedback and then you’re going to get to the final thing faster. And are like, okay, well, let me like really think about this for the next six months and journal on it.

Emily: Yeah,

Rebecca: Sure. It’s good before I put it out.

Emily: Yeah. Well,  so within my certification, there’s a certain number of required practice sessions and then there’s a certain number of required paid sessions. And then after another month or so, we require them to increase their prices. So they get to do all of this within the container, this like safe little haven. And we actually recently had a student who did eight of her, I want to say eight of her 50 practice sessions and expected to certify. And so it was one of those opportunities where…

Rebecca: Eight out of 5-0?

Emily: out of 5-0.

Rebecca: yeah 😀

Emily: And so it’s kind of like. So did you expect to not meet the requirements and still certify? I’m confused.

Rebecca: Yeah. Yeah. And you can’t. Yeah, you just can’t jump. You just can’t jump past the stepping stones, you know, it’s like…

Emily: Yeah.

Rebecca: And I think the other advice that I see given out there a lot, which is I think very harmful, is like this kind of fake til you make it and like you’re worth it. Charge premium rates. Like you got to just do it. And like I was writing, I think it was a blog post. I was doing some kind of content the other day where I was talking about this phenomenon where like coaches are new healers because we’re in this world, this kind of woo energy world where it’s all like, got to just go for it.

Like, you know, fake it till you make it and put yourself out there and just charge premium rates off of the but is such a mind fuck because your confidence isn’t there. And so and so like imagine saying that in the field of medicine and being like you know what you.

Know all the surgery hours, just like, get in there and own it. Like it’s not you can like you can’t fake your way to competence and you can make your way to confidence. And so you have to just put in the work to get really good at what you’re doing to build the confidence. And that’s how you’ll end up raising your rates and being able to really own it. But I just find that all that advice in this kind of spiritual world is so harmful.

Emily: Right, it is… I agree. And I think that’s partly why this is so integral into the program, is because you have to do the work to earn the thing. And that’s foundational for all businesses. There’s always going to be ups and downs. There’s always going to be challenges.

The ones who succeed, the ones who certify are saying, All right, that was super hard and I want to overcome this challenge, whether it’s pricing or changing my messaging or getting a survey back from my people are starting to really be visible and not worry about judgment so much. And, you know, the slight increase in price, like having to work through all of that stuff is the work. And for students who are ready to buckle up and show up and put in those hours, you’re going to get those results.

Rebecca: Yeah.

Emily: So that’s what’s really challenging. When you go, well, I’ll show up, half of I’ll show up 50% and expect 100%. I’ll just start my business. I just started my Facebook page and I’m going to charge a premium. I just am fresh out of the gates. Because like what, most likely no one’s going to buy it for me. We already know that, most likely no one’s going to buy it for me. What if one person does buy from you and now you have to deliver on this promise?

Rebecca: You’re going to be terrified.

Emily: Oh, what

Rebecca: Yeah.

Emily: The second is… like you’re going to self-sabotage or you’re going to try to overcompensate for your lack of experience of knowledge base. And I mean, the sad fact is that I’ve actually been in programs with like big-name people that overpromise and under-deliver as well, and they have that reputation. It’s like, how are they still in business? They keep promising, you moon, and they give you like two sorts of rarely okay things. It’s like, yeah, what? So this barrier of entry is so low.

And so I think what I’m also hearing you say around is that you teach about integrity and about really being committed to your craft and really being committed to the other people because it’s truly it is about being of service, helping other people. So you’ve got to get all the other stuff out of the way so you can really serve.

Rebecca: Yeah, yeah. I think it just happens to that way because so many people are coming into business because they’re fed up with their other job or they’re whatever, or they’re coming into programs like ours when they’ve tried everything else. So this is the last straw and they’re in like a desperation scarcity mode. And so they have like they don’t have any money left. They’ve put their job and it’s like, I need this to work now.

And so, the mindset coach that works on my program always says, like, your business is your baby and you need to feed your baby. Your baby can’t feed you. So like, don’t expect to make money from your business for the first six months to a year. Like you need to be putting in a lot of work to get the baby to grow, to be big enough that eventually, they’ll take care of you.

And so I always recommend having another job, another source of income, or a lot of savings if you’re going to be doing it, because you just can’t have that that pressure. A feeling of like this has to work right now because you just end up in places where you’re charging too much or you’re going in just with this energy of like feeling like you, you deserve that people should sign up with you and like, you don’t really deserve anything. You have to either work your way up to that. You have to earn it.

Emily: Yeah, yeah. And I love to pull back the curtain with my students, to see my business, to say like, you know, you know me as what you see of me online. And also here’s what it actually is really literally like right now. You know, even if I am bringing in a lot more money than what you’re at right now, I’m still facing challenges and obstacles and having to invest huge amounts of money, whether it be on team members or technology or, you know, if I’m pivoting our rent or are changing something, it’s like this is still happening.

It’s not just like, oh, goody. Like people have this image like, okay, six figures and then we’re free from any problems. And that’s never the case. Even at seven figures and beyond, it’s like you might think that it’s hard to hire your first assistant. Well, what about if you have a payroll of 50 people and it’s like $1,000,000 a month?

Rebecca: Yeah

Emily: Oh well, you think they have no problems.

Rebecca: I actually think you get those types of problems. Like, I’m a big fan because a lot of people I work with our coaches and so they come in and they’re like, I want to create programs and digital courses. And I’m like, no, you do not, because you don’t even understand the business model that that becomes. To do that, to sustain that and the team you need and the technology need, and the audience you need the simplest business model. If you just want a coach, if you’re in this to coach and not become a full-time marketer to coach one on one clients. Keep it really simple.

Have a part-time VA to help with some of the stuff and just you can make six figures and multiple six figures doing that and keep it real easy. Like, yeah, you could simple, I’ll tell you that the more you scale, the way more headaches and complications you have, and then the less you’re actually doing the healing work or the coaching work that you actually set out to do. The more you’re literally becoming a full-time worker, that is your job.

Emily: Oh, for sure. For sure.

Rebecca: Nobody wants to do that unless you’re a marketer with free hours and we love it. But most people,are not what they’re here to do.

Emily: Right. But I think that’s great advice because also you think I need to have a membership in a course and a thing to be successful, whereas I know plenty of coaches who are making bank, they have little to no overhead because they are just staying in that sweet spot of one on ones. And the longer they stay with one on ones, their premium goes higher and higher and higher because they can deliver those results easier and faster.

Rebecca: They get better selling their niche then so they can sell the crap out of it because they’ve done it a hundred times. And it’s just so simple. Yeah, I envy, I think about going back to those days sometimes, and then I’m like, oh, that’s nuts. I don’t like the marketing piece, but I definitely have had thoughts of like, Wouldn’t it be so much easier if I fired my whole team and I just like, took 1 to 1 clients? I would take home the same amount of money, no doubt. It’s just a different way to spend your time.

But yeah, I think it’s definitely something, you know, and you don’t think about it when you’re first starting, but anyone who’s like, jumping to like, I want to create courses like you probably don’t. So get your one-on-one rolling and see how that feels and then multiply that by like meeting 100 people. Like, you probably don’t want to do that.

Emily: Yeah, more people, more problems, let me just tell you.

Rebecca: Yeah.

Emily: And  I really, I really love that you can model that too, of saying starting with this one-on-one and staying there and building off it. I love to encourage my clients to master their one on one before they even do a group program. I think it’s another mistake I think a lot of newer entrepreneurs are making is going, I’m going to do a group coaching program for six weeks with 30 people. You’re like…

Rebecca: Like okay, so you where are you going to get the people? You can’t get one client because they think, well, it’s going to be cheaper, so it’s going to be easier. And I’m like, it’s just as hard to sell a group program cheaper as it is to sell one on one. So if you can’t get one client, how are you going to get 30?

And then also, if you haven’t done your process, how are you going to do it with 30 people? Because the shit that’s going to come up, you are going to have to have a lot of skills to manage and hold space for and coach through. And you don’t have those skills yet and you’re going to be like a deer in headlights on those calls, I can promise you.

Emily: Oh yeah.

Rebecca: I have a whole program called Create Your First Group Program. It is all about like moving from that one on one to groups that I love, group programs. It’s what helped me really grow my business. But it’s got to be done in the right order. You can’t just jump to that. There’s so many reasons. It’s just not going to work.

Emily: Oh, yeah. When I first started coaching, I started my business when I was 22. Well, I should say I was 18 when I started my first, like starting doing healing work. But when I was 22, I started my first business and then I shifted into I think I’m going to start coaching people, about eight years ago I was like how do I not heal? And what is a coach do? Like I was so confused, so I was like, I’m just going to stick with the singles for a little bit and get my footing. And I worked with the clients who had already been coming in and I asked them like, Is there anything that you’d like to do with me that you haven’t seen? And they said, Well, you know what, before the session starts, we do that kind of back and forth, like I would love to do more of that like so coaching.

So that’s how it just sort of naturally, organically evolved with people who I’d already been working with for some time, some of them like five, ten years. And so when I started to really see people one on one, then I could go, okay, I can do a group program with maybe like four people. Yeah, you think you can master the one-on-one? And then when you bring four different people and their dynamics and their life and then how they interact with each other, and then that interaction with you, it’s like you are, you are holding a whole different space.

And I think that’s why I caution people when they’re first out there of like just like it’s good to be aspirational or to see somebody else is doing it and how that’s really cool. And wouldn’t it be cool if I had recurring revenue with a membership or whatever it is that you’re thinking. But I love what you’re saying of like, really just stay in your lane, master what you’re doing and build that confidence.

This has been a really fun conversation and we’ve kind of like bounced around, but I feel like. We’ve touched a lot of different topics around, you know, what it is to build a business and some common mistakes that people are making. And you know how they can utilize their platform is maybe a little bit more strategically. Or even just realizing that niche for now, like, okay, I can just take that one piece and run with it so I know people are going to be really excited to hear from you outside of this podcast and connect with you. So what’s the best way for people to reach out and connect with you?

Rebecca: Yeah. Our website is The UncagedLife. We have a Facebook group called Uncaged Lifers that you can join. We are on social media that’s over at the UncagedLife. Come say hi and all those places we love sending, I love sending voice messages on Instagram, that’s one thing I love Instagram for like send me a message to Instagram. We can just like voice each other because it’s so much texting in a day.

Emily: Yeah,

Rebecca: Yeah, Those are the best places. I’m kind of hanging out on all of those. We’ve got a live chat on the website, a bunch of free resources over there too, for people getting started who are in this phase of like, how do I niche,  how do you get the clients and all that?

Emily: Wonderful. Well, thank you for sharing that and just thank you for sharing such great energy today. It’s been awesome.

Rebecca: Yeah, super fun chatting!

Emily: Yeah, I love hearing from you. Yeah, I had a really good time, so, you know, we’ll be sharing it, of course, on all of our social platforms and we’ll be tagging you. So if you guys are listening now or watching on the YouTube Channel. So if you want to go over to emilyaaron.com/youtube, you can watch this entire episode and just get to know Rebecca a little bit better, get to see our dynamic a little bit better. You can always subscribe over on my YouTube channel or listen wherever your favorite platform is. I love hearing your feedback, I love hearing your AHA’s, your breakthrough.

So of course, you know, screenshot this episode, share it on your Instagram stories or share it on your wherever you are, share with a friend. Let them know, Let me know. Let Rebecca know. What was really inspiring for you from this episode. What is some sort of action item that you can take from listening to this? And was there anything that you felt like, oh yeah, she just called me out. Oh my God. Oh really?

Rebecca: Yeah. If that does happen, send me a message on Instagram because I love one thing I always offered to do is to look at other people’s Instagram or website, whatever you have up and just give you some quick feedback on like, are your foundations clear? So if you’re like, shit, I have that? Is it clear? Send it over and I’ll take a peek and I’ll let you know what I think.

Emily: Wow, that’s very generous of you. Thank you for that.

Rebecca: Yeah, I do it. I do it all the time and I’m, you know, it’s not going to be like a whole review of everything you’re doing, but it’s going to be a quick, like, yay or nay or yeah, you’re good to go. You can move on to the marketing piece or like we have some foundational work to do here.

Emily: Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s so generous. You guys take her up on that.

Rebecca: But, I mean. Send me the messages on Instagram. I’m ready.

Emily: Yeah. Awesome. So, anyway, thank you all for being here, for listening. Thank you so much Rebecca, It was great to chat with you and we’ll see you all on the next episode.